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JamesHalliday

Hello to all and need help identifying buildings

Hello,
My name is Jim Halliday and my father was born in Clydebank in 1925.  Having trouble locating his birthplace.  His birth certificate states 94 Dumbarton Rd, Clydebank, in the District of Old Kilpatrick.  He's passed, but told me it was above a pub.  I can find two locations, for some reason, for this address. I find an old pub at 110 Dumbarton Rd, which appears to be built in 1924, so it would've been there then.

The second is identifying a building in a picture.  It might be a church.  I've attached the picture.  Can anyone identify the picture in the background?
sputnik

see what i can do for you on this one jim.the 110 dumbarton rd premises never had houses above it.in its history it has been a masonic hall,social club,nightclub,public bar and is now up for sale at auction.is it the church in the photo that you wish to know about?
JamesHalliday

Re: Building

Thank you for responding!  Yes.  The building in the background appears to be a church.  Do you know what church it is, and where, and if it is still there? As for "94 Dumbarton Rd", it seems there is a similar address near "Old Kilpatrick".  The picture with "Andrea's" is 93 Dumbarton Rd, but across the street, the address is 260.  Not sure about the numbering system, but it is right under the Erskine bridge.  I am not sure if they used odd-even for each side of the street, or if 94 is next to 93.  In any case, #260 is across the street from #93!  Is it possible they changed the numbering system since 1925?  I don't know if I should assume it is the house across the street from #93.  The 110 building is on Dumbarton Rd, also, but way down the street.  How could there be two addresses on Dumbarton Rd in Clydebank that are so near each other numerically and so far apart?  Any help much appreciated!  Jim

sputnik

jim,the buiding you see there was built in 1924.the dumbarton rd thing often causes confusion.the rd runs from glasgow to the clydebank boundary then becomes glasgow rd,it then reverts to dumbarton rd from the bottom of kibowie rd.it stops at the end of the clydebank boundary at freelands place.then becomes dumbarton rd old kilpatrick.so each of the dumbarton rds [3] in all are different rds and are numbered in their own merit.the church in the photo is not the morrison memorial which stands across from 110 dumbarton rd.hope this helps thus far.
JamesHalliday

That is very helpful.  Thank you for the information!
Jim
IBrown

While there is on-line access to ordnance survey & street maps of Scotland, I'm not particularly clever at homing in on the one I'm after.

Today, the area is part of West Dunbartonshire, but in 1925 it was the Old Kilpatrick parish, part of Dunbarton County, and the A814 (the same road with different names which runs from Glasgow to Helensburgh ran through Old Kilpatrick parish connecting Clydebank, Dalmuir, Old Kilpatrick (now Kilpatrick but still known locally as 'OK') and Bowling.  

The Ordinance Survey sheets are : Clydebank NS49,  Dalmuir NS48, and Old Kilpatrick NS46. These numbers give the beginning of the 6-digit grid references NS 46XXXX , NS 48XXXX, and NS 49XXXX, but that is as far as I can take it ... each NS sheet can have 20 or 30 'sub-sheets' but hopefully this will help the map gurus on here, or the local archive library for the area, identify where the addresses were and the type of buildings.
IBrown

Spent yesterday afternoon on a fairly fruitless search. There is an existing 94 Dumbarton Road, but that is in Partick (Glasgow) well outside the Old Kilpatrick Parish. I reckon that the '94 Dumbarton Road' that may fit the bill no longer exists and was in Dalmuir, on the left side of the road looking towards Old Kilpatrick [OK] near the Canal bridge (grid reference NS 48428, 71171). There are a few photos taken of the bridge looking towards OK that 'accidently' capture buildings on either side of it, one tenement having  first floor commercial premises with flats above it but its too far away to tell if a shop or pub.

On the subject of the church, none of the on-line photos match, but an on-line  history of Dalmuir churches states that the three oldest were destroyed during the Clydebank Blitz.

Couldn't find on-line OS maps with house numbers, but sheets I looked at were: DUNBARTONSHIRE n XXIII.12 for OK, and XXXIII.13 for Dalmuir. You'll pick these up entering the full description into a Google search.

The Clydebank archives are held by Clydebank Library, Dumbarton Road, Clydebank, G81 1XH, Telephone 0141 5622434.
JamesHalliday

Thank you for taking the time to do all of this research!  I think you're right, that the building no longer exists.  I know much was destroyed during the Blitz.  94 Dumbarton Rd. was temporary housing for my Dad's parents, but nonetheless his birthplace.  I do know my Great Grandmother's house at 11 McGhee Street is still standing. It was damaged during the Blitz, but repaired.
Vinny the Mackem

On a slightly related note, does anyone know the seven buildings that were left undamaged? I've read that quite often, but have no idea where they were!
calamity

photo of one here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clydebank_Blitz
Vinny the Mackem

Not sure if that's one of the hallowed completely undamaged seven, or just one that survived.  There were plenty that did survive.  I'd be fairly surprised if anything left standing in Kilbowie Road was completely unscathed.

There was a great map on the Clydebank Blitz site years ago where someone had traced all of the bombs and their damage radius, but it's disappeared.  There is a similar one, but it doesn't have the same level of detail.
sputnik

i think the la scala cinema in graham ave avoided a direct hit.
IBrown

Vinny the Mackem wrote:
Not sure if that's one of the hallowed completely undamaged seven, or just one that survived.  There were plenty that did survive.  I'd be fairly surprised if anything left standing in Kilbowie Road was completely unscathed.

There was a great map on the Clydebank Blitz site years ago where someone had traced all of the bombs and their damage radius, but it's disappeared.  There is a similar one, but it doesn't have the same level of detail.


I spent last night watching the youtube vidoes series on the two nights of bombing, there was some sort of blast map featured but I'm not sure if it's the same one. Harrowing viewing.

I come from Lanarkshire [Bellshill] and as a wee boy my mum told me they could hear the bombing there although it was maybes 20 to 30 miles away. I also lived in Yoker for 13 years, spitting distance from the Glasgow / Clydebank boundary, and Rothesay Dock - I posted on another thread about a freight guard's experience there when the bombs started falling - and I reckon the house I lived in Yoker had got hit.

The builders discovered during renovation work, that one of the walls [13 inches thick] had been damaged in the past and had been repaired with what looked like rubble or brick infill with courses that ran vertical rather than horizontal like the undamaged part of the wall on either side of it. As that wouldn't be allowed 'today' they reckon it had happened during the war when building material was short supply.

The Regional Councillor also told me the tenement building on the west side of Dumbarton Road, Yoker, at Yoker Ferry Road was also damaged by bomb blast, and was pinned from front to back. I'm sure that was visible, but I'd a look on Google Streetview,  no sign of plates or  bolts on Dumbarton Road frontage, but looks to have been renovated since I lived there.
sputnik

the co op funeral parlour in hume st was used as a temporary morgue during the blitz so i guess they missed that building as well.back on topic for jim halliday,i have scoured loads of churches pics over the last few days but cant get one that matches the pic,sorry jim.the reference library downstairs from the main clydebank library may be able to assist you.good luck.
weechookieburdie

Re: Building

JamesHalliday wrote:
Thank you for responding!  Yes.  The building in the background appears to be a church.  Do you know what church it is, and where, and if it is still there? As for "94 Dumbarton Rd", it seems there is a similar address near "Old Kilpatrick".  The picture with "Andrea's" is 93 Dumbarton Rd, but across the street, the address is 260.  Not sure about the numbering system, but it is right under the Erskine bridge.  I am not sure if they used odd-even for each side of the street, or if 94 is next to 93.  In any case, #260 is across the street from #93!  Is it possible they changed the numbering system since 1925?  I don't know if I should assume it is the house across the street from #93.  The 110 building is on Dumbarton Rd, also, but way down the street.  How could there be two addresses on Dumbarton Rd in Clydebank that are so near each other numerically and so far apart?  Any help much appreciated!  Jim



Hi Jim
Sorry I don't recognise the "church" building in the background, I'm a born 'n' bred Bankie and know most of the church buildings in the town...given the date though it is very possible that the church was bombed during the Clydebank Blitz and the remains cleared away - haven't found it in any old Clydebank pictures yet but will keep looking...on the address question, there I can help.  94 Dumbarton Road, Clydebank (in the Parish of Old Kilpatrick) was in a row of tenements immediately to the right of the old pub/nightclub (no.110) in your other picture...Directly opposite the Clydebank Public Library. The modern row of shops/offices was built in 1990, in your picture the "Clydebank Post" office is at the end of this row of shops. These new buildings have been renumbered slightly, i.e. the Clydebank Post office is number 88 with the gap next to it then the old derelict nightclub which is 110. The tenements which are on the south side of Dumbarton Road have not only survived but have been completely refurbished, whereas the tenements on the other side of the road i.e. including number 92/94/96 were all demolished, leaving the old nightclub standing on its own. From the map attached (1958) it looks like this row of tenements didn't have any shops/pub in the ground floor, there was a pub on the corner of Miller Street/Dumbarton Road (labelled PH - public house) which was just about 50 yards along, will try to upload pic so you can see what it looked like i.e. the tenements & pub below. Also, other pic showing the still present tenements directly opposite where no.94 stood, both sides of the road would have been the same.
[img]Image hosted by servimg.com[/img]
Map of 1958 showing the tenement "close" 92/94/96 Dumbarton Road, opposite the Library (far left upper quadrant)
Image hosted by servimg.com
Corner of Miller Street/Dumbarton Road (labelled PH at 70 Dumbarton Road on the 1958 map), opposite the Town Hall & Library, illustrating what that bit of Dumbarton Road looked like. This corner site is now Solidarity Square, a landscaped area commemorating the Solidarity Movement in Poland. (those tenements along with no.94 are all gone now and the area redeveloped).
Image hosted by servimg.com
The refurbished tenements on the other side of Dumbarton Road, directly opposite site of number 94. (now the 1990 shops) - gives you a look at what it would have looked like.
weechookieburdie

sputnik wrote:
i think the la scala cinema in graham ave avoided a direct hit.

Yes, my twin aunts (both dead now) were in there watching a film when the bombing started, they said they were frantic to get out and get home (number 1, Second Avenue) but the ARP warden made them and everyone else stay in there until the all clear went - it was terrifying for them when they did get out, as is known that whole area was in total devastation, they couldn't get home (it was gone anyway). My grandparents with my mother who was 8 years old had crawled out of the rubble through a hole in an exterior wall and walked to safety along Radnor Street, they joined a queue for evacuation and were taken to Johnstone. It was about 6 weeks before the family found out each other had survived and were reunited. My late mother's toes & feet were permanently damaged, from walking barefoot (in her nightdress) along the road in Radnor Street, which was blisteringly hot from the burning buildings. For the rest of her life she was terrified of fireworks, would go white faced in fear on Guy Fawkes night etc. Reminder of her experiences in the Blitz.
sputnik

weechookieburdie,i am also a born and bred bankie.the pub on the corner of miller st was the burgh bar.i was in the gallery/museum at the town hall yesterday and there are some paintings on display just now and one of them shows this building.
weechookieburdie

sputnik wrote:
weechookieburdie,i am also a born and bred bankie.the pub on the corner of miller st was the burgh bar.i was in the gallery/museum at the town hall yesterday and there are some paintings on display just now and one of them shows this building.


Ahh, yes...the Burgh Bar...bit of a dive as I recall *lol*
I have happy memories of going to the "Old" Baths in Hall Street every Saturday morning, 4d to get in but I got a Season Ticket for my birthday which cost 10/- for a year's admission...with my pals I used to come out the baths hair soaking wet, crossed the road (Dumbarton Road) and into a wee bakers shop just along from the Burgh Bar, for a hot sausage roll and would walk up Kilbowie Road back home to Drumry (it was a toss up between the bus fare or a sausage roll...usually the sausage roll won!)
The "New" Baths in Bruce Street (now the Clydebank Museum/Art Gallery) was 6d to get in, I never liked them though was happier in the Hall Street Baths, I think it was because the New Baths were 12ft 6in at the deep end and the Old Baths were only 6ft at the deep end, so I felt safer there...always liked to feel the bottom of the pool under my toes *lol* I visited the re-vamped museum & gallery in the summer, went to see the Jolomo Retrospective exhibition, great stuff but I was more interested in the Singer sewing machines ... worked in Singer when I left school for 2 years and had my dad's old Singer machine for years, saw the same model in the display think it dated from the 1870's...it was a treadle (used to play with the treadle when I was a nipper) but he got rid of the cabinet & treadle, and fitted it with a motor...nae fun there. Wish I still had it now though, would be a museum piece!
sputnik

i heard tales that the hands from the singer clock were turned into ash trays.i put this information down as an old wifes tale.now i have seen one. very nice little curios they were too.given to departmental heads as gifts they were.
weechookieburdie

Re: Hello to all and need help identifying buildings

JamesHalliday wrote:
Hello,
My name is Jim Halliday and my father was born in Clydebank in 1925.  Having trouble locating his birthplace.  His birth certificate states 94 Dumbarton Rd, Clydebank, in the District of Old Kilpatrick.  He's passed, but told me it was above a pub.  I can find two locations, for some reason, for this address. I find an old pub at 110 Dumbarton Rd, which appears to be built in 1924, so it would've been there then.

The second is identifying a building in a picture.  It might be a church.  I've attached the picture.  Can anyone identify the picture in the background?


Hello again Jim, I have a wee bit of further info on the building where your dad was born, have been in contact with someone who by chance lived in number 82, which was 2 closes along. They were there until the building was condemned and demolished in 1969.  If you'd like, I'll copy & post your picture to see if anyone can identify the church building. Cheers, Lorraine.

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