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Doorstop

IDS calls "War!" on the Great Unwashed.

During the past few days I have found myself becoming increasingly more incensed with Ian Duncan Smiths shining new flagship of stigmatising the long term unemployed by forcing them, under threat of cuts in benefits (at the point of a loaded gun basically), to perform basic menial cleaning tasks in their locality gratis calling it a 'New contract with the unemployed'. The actual term 'contract' is also a bone of contention - surely a contract is an agreement of minds on an issue to the benefit of both parties involved - I don't see this fitting the bill in any way, shape, type, manner, form or description.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the unemployed being recruited for various local amenity projects but it would have to be on a 'rewards for gainful work done' basis .. strongarming people who are unable to find work in the presently increasingly exacting and rigorous job market is nothing short of Governmentally sanctioned bullying and is, quite frankly, beyond the pale.

If this is the start of 'everyone being seen to do their bit' for the good of the country where are the long awaited recalculations of the inheritance tax or the almost universally called for 'Robin Hood' tax on the banking profits?

I think we, the general public and the 'everyman' in general, need to start making more of a noise about this level of disparity which, I have to say I thought was going to be inevitable under this particular puppet 'coalition' (and I use the word coalition very, very loosely indeed) Government but even I, a dyed in the wool socialist with a small 's', am appalled at the alacrity at which this type of socially divisive policy farming has been shoehorned in. And to auspice same as 'for the good of us all' is galling to to the point of nauseam.

What are your views, good people, I'd be interested to know?
nellienaeneck

I agree with every word you say but I believe that Scots talk a good story behind closed doors but we don't do anything about it.Awe talk and nae action that;s us.
cybers

Never took yi for a (s)ocialist  Doorstop....

SO TELL US DID TOMMY REALLY GET HIS WANG OOT IN MANCHESTER  WAE THON UGLY BINT ANVAR KHAN

sputnik

yes doorstop i certainly agree with your views on the subject.alas i find that there is so much apathy these days when such matters are raised.indeed the last protest march i was on had a certain michael foot at the helm.
Doorstop

I never thought I'd be saying this but we need to take a leaf from the Frenchmans' citizen handbook.

They went batshit crazy and started riots because they were moving the retirement age up to 62 from 60.

And yet here they're raising it to 68.. and not a peep out of the plebeians.

They could lead us into football stadiums at gun-point and force us to dig our own graves before being shot... and the only thing we'd complain about is how slow the queue for it was moving

And Cybers mate .. leftward leanings since my early teens - much to the chagrin of my parents who are lovely people but unswerving Tory swine.
Bankie Boy

Im with you on this one Mr Stop or is it ok to call you Door.  Just heard a debate on the radio on this very subject. An eminent human rights lawyer stated it would be illegal to force prisoners incarcerated for any crime from shoplifting to murder to work as this would infringe on their human rights. He stated it would be interesting to argue the case that the unemployed who have perpetrated no crime other than loosing their job or becoming unwell were less entitled to human rights than any prisoner. It was also argued that some would be better off as criminals being looked after by the state than being unemployed. The cutbacks being made by this country is throwing tens of thousands of government employees on to the dole and will only make things worse. I agree this squeeze on the poor of this country MUST stop.
cybers

Aye yi dodged the real question just like the man himself ...

I agree with almost everything you say and i do mean almost but for my views on helping this country out of debt, poverty and in a lot of families cases hunger stop sending fecking aid abroad till we have fixed out  our own problems. Oh i hear the sharp intake of breath but because someone actually said what most think i shall wear that burden but with pride not the shame and stigma that everyone assumes should go with it.

Why the hell should we as a country subsidise another country call it a loan cause that country to accumulate a debt it can never repay... Harsh but true fcuk em !!!

We have starving cold pensioners in our own country, We have needy kids with no arse in their trousers or soles in their shoes because their parents are barely making ends meet whilst working. Then we have the sick and infirm the easiest target it would seem for the Tories.

They claim we all need to work together to reduce this countries debt.. the poor get poorer whilst the rich prosper. Surely my answer clears up our problem a whole lot easier and quicker. And as for asylum ... sorry yir too late doors shut and if yir here already yir getting no free handouts heres a brush, on with the show. See how many want to spend the night in a freezing truck on a ferry to get here f they are going to be made to work thier ticket The french give em nothing but a camp near the tracks or ferry ports in the hope they will shuffle off to Soft Britain.

For the record i am not a racist i am though a realist.

Breath in and relax !!!  
Doorstop

sputnik wrote:
.indeed the last protest march i was on had a certain michael foot at the helm.


Not yesterday then Sputters ..  

Bankie Boy - you can call me anything you like these days, I hung up the ultra-violence clobber for a much more mellow mantle a couple of years back and haven't looked back since.  
Doorstop

cybers wrote:
Aye yi dodged the real question just like the man himself ...

I agree with almost everything you say and i do mean almost but for my views on helping this country out of debt, poverty and in a lot of families cases hunger stop sending fecking aid abroad till we have fixed out †our own problems. Oh i hear the sharp intake of breath but because someone actually said what most think i shall wear that burden but with pride not the shame and stigma that everyone assumes should go with it.

Why the hell should we as a country subsidise another country call it a loan cause that country to accumulate a debt it can never repay... Harsh but true fcuk em !!!

We have starving cold pensioners in our own country, We have needy kids with no arse in their trousers or soles in their shoes because their parents are barely making ends meet whilst working. Then we have the sick and infirm the easiest target it would seem for the Tories.

They claim we all need to work together to reduce this countries debt.. the poor get poorer whilst the rich prosper. Surely my answer clears up our problem a whole lot easier and quicker. And as for asylum ... sorry yir too late doors shut and if yir here already yir getting no free handouts heres a brush, on with the show. See how many want to spend the night in a freezing truck on a ferry to get here f they are going to be made to work thier ticket The french give em nothing but a camp near the tracks or ferry ports in the hope they will shuffle off to Soft Britain.

For the record i am not a racist i am though a realist.

Breath in and relax !!! †



Hear, hear that man. Couldn't have put things better myself.

How do you start an anonymous Facebook squealing campaign then Ted?
cybers

Dunno lol ...

but reading that back you can see why i generally stay away from politics.



It gets up my nose when my wife comes home and tells us about some hardship case family who are working yet are in the school struggling to feed their kids to be told ... oh aye heres a cracker .... yir weans no eligible for school meals whilst they watch the refugee getting everything buckshee and papped in rented accomodation better than the hole they live in and are expected to pay full rent for.

Makes my blood boil noo where did i leave my revolutionary hat...
fastnet

cybers wrote:




Makes my blood boil noo where did i leave my revolutionary hat...


In "that" club in Manchester wae big ? Tommy........  
cybers

I think you will find it's Wee Tommy to his mates  
me

how is this going to work if they do do it?
im mean working for your giro?

theyd be in breach of eu min wage laws surely
Doorstop

Since when has the law mattered to Tory swine ... they'll just get their buddies in the upper house to re jig the statutes to suit.
James

Agree with a lot that's been said. There will be riots in the streets once these
cuts begin to bite - there always is under a tory government.

But remember, we're all in this together...    



James H
sputnik

ye dont get this on question time.
tvdel

if the long term unemployed are to start picking up rubbish and doing other duties tha IDS wants to put our way
then i for one will be looking for a reduction from my council tax   [/b]
Doorstop

Well played.  
Beano

me wrote:
how is this going to work if they do do it?
im mean working for your giro?

theyd be in breach of eu min wage laws surely
Me...unemployment benefit is not a "wage" it's benefit until you find work.
Beano

cybers wrote:
Aye yi dodged the real question just like the man himself ...

I agree with almost everything you say and i do mean almost but for my views on helping this country out of debt, poverty and in a lot of families cases hunger stop sending fecking aid abroad till we have fixed out †our own problems. Oh i hear the sharp intake of breath but because someone actually said what most think i shall wear that burden but with pride not the shame and stigma that everyone assumes should go with it.

Why the hell should we as a country subsidise another country call it a loan cause that country to accumulate a debt it can never repay... Harsh but true fcuk em !!!

We have starving cold pensioners in our own country, We have needy kids with no arse in their trousers or soles in their shoes because their parents are barely making ends meet whilst working. Then we have the sick and infirm the easiest target it would seem for the Tories.

They claim we all need to work together to reduce this countries debt.. the poor get poorer whilst the rich prosper. Surely my answer clears up our problem a whole lot easier and quicker. And as for asylum ... sorry yir too late doors shut and if yir here already yir getting no free handouts heres a brush, on with the show. See how many want to spend the night in a freezing truck on a ferry to get here f they are going to be made to work thier ticket The french give em nothing but a camp near the tracks or ferry ports in the hope they will shuffle off to Soft Britain.

For the record i am not a racist i am though a realist.

Breath in and relax !!! †
Cybers.... much of the aid we give comes in the form of materials "tents tae tractors" and keeps people employed in this country.....In many cases asylum seekers are prevented from working and as for closing doors and sending them back well who do we send back, asian,african east european and the irish, asylum seekers of yesteryear no I don't think so mate. It was not the unemployed or any minority population that caused this economic crisis look too the greedy international bankers blame them.
Beano

cybers wrote:
Dunno lol ...

but reading that back you can see why i generally stay away from politics.



It gets up my nose when my wife comes home and tells us about some hardship case family who are working yet are in the school struggling to feed their kids to be told ... oh aye heres a cracker .... yir weans no eligible for school meals whilst they watch the refugee getting everything buckshee and papped in rented accomodation better than the hole they live in and are expected to pay full rent for.

Makes my blood boil noo where did i leave my revolutionary hat...
Cybers...I think many of us have been in this situation working hard to bring up our kids. I remember our kids not getting into nursery school because unmarried mothers had priority at that time but I don't hold any grudges about that "you just get on with it" mate.   and I agree with you on free school meals every kid should get them.  
Beano

tvdel wrote:
if the long term unemployed are to start picking up rubbish and doing other duties tha IDS wants to put our way
then i for one will be looking for a reduction from my council tax † [/b]
tvdel...if the unemployed have to pick up your rubbish give them a proper job and wage and put the council tax up. I can see councils paying off cleansing workers and getting the work done on the cheap.  
fastnet

Ben, You're dodging the main question as well............









Did Tommy get his whanger oot ?...........    
Doorstop

Not for me he didn't .. the tease.
Beano

fastnet wrote:
Ben, You're dodging the main question as well............









Did Tommy get his whanger oot ?...........
Fastnet... dunno but he's a wee prick anyway "allegedly"    
johnmcn

If you receive benefits inc housing/council tax then you should put in the hours to pay back what you claim. Myself and my wife work and it pisses both of us off when we see so called poverty stricken unemployed neighbours getting pissed/stoned every weekend, have enough cash for both of them to smoke, get takeaways, taxis to the shops and a full sky tv package.With all the free time they have you'd think they'd have the best kept garden in the street...wrong. We have to pay our way, so the hell should they

Get them out doing community work and bloody earn those benefits..
cybers

Oops i seem to have opened a can of worms ...

I am not some mad BNP advocate Ben... I hate those bastards too ....
Asylum if its a genuine case great, grant it get them in and gainfully employed ... if you come here to sponge sorry ... 1st class ride back whence you came. We are too soft as a nation Charity begins at home as far as i am concerned so spend my tax money at home.

Race never came into the question so your country of origin point is really a moot one m8.

Why should we just have to get on with it as you say...
The government dont owe us a living out of our tax cash granted but where does it say we owe them one ?
Doog Doog

The problem with our benefit/healthcare system is that the balance between the taxpayer and those who having to claim benefit is increasingly tipping towards the latter,not to mention that we are living longer than we did 60 years ago.
If they want to target those who claim benefit,target those who "can work but won't work",the ones who abuse the system.Not those who genuinely need help.
I know of people who don't work, but can spend all day every day in the pub.
Jeez! If only I could afford to do that!
Fjord

Yeah! and while we're on a witch hunt lets attach a brush to wheelchairs/ crutches and walking sticks so those disableds can do their bit also as they swan off down the bookies, licensed grocers, pub etc.
cybers

You may laugh Mr Fjord but how long before your sweeping out your transport yirsel in the swathing cuts ?
Doorstop

cybers wrote:
Oops i seem to have opened a can of worms ...

I am not some mad BNP advocate Ben... I hate those bastards too ....
Asylum if its a genuine case great, grant it get them in and gainfully employed ... if you come here to sponge sorry ... 1st class ride back whence you came. We are too soft as a nation Charity begins at home as far as i am concerned so spend my tax money at home.

Race never came into the question so your country of origin point is really a moot one m8.

Why should we just have to get on with it as you say...
The government dont owe us a living out of our tax cash granted but where does it say we owe them one ?


I think our Cybers has a very valid point to make ... if it's all about tightening our belts and doing without then every effort should be made to trim the fat before we cut into the bone. There are worthy cases at home (the physically or mentally disabled, the elderly, children in care etc who will all be made to pay in one form or another should the draconian measures become entrenched while, for want of another terminology, Johnny come lately gets the whole wallop in a plate.

It's priorities that I'm on about people ... the robin hood tax would raise £7.7 bn IN THE FIRST YEAR while they are still contemplating cutting the winter fuel payouts to pensioners to save £2bn over FOUR YEARS.

It's the disparity that's got me boiling .. not the concept as a whole.
me

Beano wrote:
me wrote:
how is this going to work if they do do it?
im mean working for your giro?

theyd be in breach of eu min wage laws surely
Me...unemployment benefit is not a "wage" it's benefit until you find work.


i know i meant that if you had to work for nothing and still get your benefits the working for below the min wage would be breaking eu law.

dunno how the upper house will get round it as they dont set these laws
me

Beano wrote:
tvdel wrote:
if the long term unemployed are to start picking up rubbish and doing other duties tha IDS wants to put our way
then i for one will be looking for a reduction from my council tax † [/b]
tvdel...if the unemployed have to pick up your rubbish give them a proper job and wage and put the council tax up. I can see councils paying off cleansing workers and getting the work done on the cheap. †



does anyone think for one second that the council tax would go down if the unemployed made the streets shiny clean?
cybers

The problem is it could so easily descend into a race thread instead of the class thread it really is.

Do you think that old Cammy there will ever need to worry about heating payments no cos he will pander to the rich as they have always done.

We must be the only democratic country in the world to have a government we never voted for ... The Lacky party had to make up the numbers whilst running around sniffin tory arse just to make it to the top.

Even the english are starting to ask "What have we done" ...the new generation forgot what the Tory agenda has always been ... Hump the working man whilst drinking brandy and smoking cigars on the croquet lawn.
James

I admit I am biased - I absolutely fukkin loathe the tories.

If you want some figures - how about the £10bn (on average) in benefits that
goes unclaimed each year which is in part down to the staff that work in benefit
offices who are told NEVER to volunteer any information to the plebs?

Funnily enough, you never read about this in the Daily Mail/NOTW etc as they're
too busy sticking the boot into, I mean, highlighting the plight of some family with
12 weans claiming dole money...



James H
Fjord

me wrote:
Beano wrote:
me wrote:
how is this going to work if they do do it?
im mean working for your giro?

theyd be in breach of eu min wage laws surely
Me...unemployment benefit is not a "wage" it's benefit until you find work.


i know i meant that if you had to work for nothing and still get your benefits the working for below the min wage would be breaking eu law.



They'd probably get around the minimum wage issue by making it pro-rata. I'd doubt anyone will be forced down the salt mine on a 39 hour week for thruppence... I could be wrong though it's the Tory's we're dealing with.
James

cybers wrote:
The problem is it could so easily descend into a race thread instead of the class thread it really is.

It's a class war - that's what Gideon and Cameron are all about. Which leads me
to this.


johnmcn wrote:
If you receive benefits inc housing/council tax then you should put in the hours to pay back what you claim. Myself and my wife work and it pisses both of us off when we see so called poverty stricken unemployed neighbours getting pissed/stoned every weekend, have enough cash for both of them to smoke, get takeaways, taxis to the shops and a full sky tv package.With all the free time they have you'd think they'd have the best kept garden in the street...wrong. We have to pay our way, so the hell should they

Get them out doing community work and bloody earn those benefits..

Well, firstly you cant take your little example and extrapolate that situation
equally over the whole country and put everyone in the same box. That's what
they want you to do. Classic 'divide & conquer' tactics. Get one pleb raging
about his circumstances and being annoyed by the pleb next door - it keeps
your attention from the real cause - the bastards who avoid paying their full
share of tax and put their company in their wives name, the politicians who
spend £18,000 of public money on a bookcase, the fact that the rich are getting
richer, the ever-widening gap between the rich and the poor, etc, etc.

And, of course, the bankers who caused all this fukkin mess in the first place.


James H
cybers

Wot he said  
Doorstop

James has encapsulated the entire problem in a paragraph.
Beano

johnmcn wrote:
If you receive benefits inc housing/council tax then you should put in the hours to pay back what you claim. Myself and my wife work and it pisses both of us off when we see so called poverty stricken unemployed neighbours getting pissed/stoned every weekend, have enough cash for both of them to smoke, get takeaways, taxis to the shops and a full sky tv package.With all the free time they have you'd think they'd have the best kept garden in the street...wrong. We have to pay our way, so the hell should they

Get them out doing community work and bloody earn those benefits..
John....if unemployments that good why the hell are you working ?
Lone Groover

There isn't much chance of the enforced workers actually working though is there?  Community service work is only ever carried out to the lowest possible standard so this would be that same or worse.
Beano

Doog Doog wrote:
The problem with our benefit/healthcare system is that the balance between the taxpayer and those who having to claim benefit is increasingly tipping towards the latter,not to mention that we are living longer than we did 60 years ago.
If they want to target those who claim benefit,target those who "can work but won't work",the ones who abuse the system.Not those who genuinely need help.
I know of people who don't work, but can spend all day every day in the pub.
Jeez! If only I could afford to do that!
Doog doog..... I agree with you it's the abuse of the system and not the system itself that's at fault.
Beano

Lone Groover wrote:
There isn't much chance of the enforced workers actually working though is there? †Community service work is only ever carried out to the lowest possible standard so this would be that same or worse.
Lone Groover...remember the YTS young kids washing stairs and closes and saying their training them for the workplace for £24 a week.
Beano

Doorstop wrote:
cybers wrote:
Oops i seem to have opened a can of worms ...

I am not some mad BNP advocate Ben... I hate those bastards too ....
Asylum if its a genuine case great, grant it get them in and gainfully employed ... if you come here to sponge sorry ... 1st class ride back whence you came. We are too soft as a nation Charity begins at home as far as i am concerned so spend my tax money at home.

Race never came into the question so your country of origin point is really a moot one m8.

Why should we just have to get on with it as you say...
The government dont owe us a living out of our tax cash granted but where does it say we owe them one ?


I think our Cybers has a very valid point to make ... if it's all about tightening our belts and doing without then every effort should be made to trim the fat before we cut into the bone. There are worthy cases at home (the physically or mentally disabled, the elderly, children in care etc who will all be made to pay in one form or another should the draconian measures become entrenched while, for want of another terminology, Johnny come lately gets the whole wallop in a plate.

It's priorities that I'm on about people ... the robin hood tax would raise £7.7 bn IN THE FIRST YEAR while they are still contemplating cutting the winter fuel payouts to pensioners to save £2bn over FOUR YEARS.

It's the disparity that's got me boiling .. not the concept as a whole.
Doorstop....tighting our belts..trim the fat..."WHY" this is a rich country don't let the bastard fool you, if thing are that bad put the tax up and keep our benifits and health care but the tories don't want to do that because the rich will have to dig deeper and they don't want to be seen as the party that raised taxes.
Beano

Cybers mate...I know your not a mad BNP member   I apologise if I came across the wrong way  
AlanM

The deficit wasn't a product of rising spending it was a product of collapsing tax revenues due to the recession. Labour's plan was to keep the spending levels up to ensure a quicker recovery which would have brought the tax revenues back up before reducing the budgets to sort out the deficit.

The ConDem plan is cut now and cut deep which will at best stall any recovery and at worst tip us back into a recession far deeper and more damaging than any that has gone before. Heaven only knows how many folk will lose their jobs as a result. As to the suggestion that the private sector will take up the slack in the jobs market - that is laughable. With the prospect of rising unemployment people are loathe to spend any more than they absolutley need to - so the economy shrinks. Unemployment in the public sector will increase - so the economy will shrink. As a result unemployment in the private sector will also increase - so the economy will shrink.

The other thing that annoys me is the way they go after benfit cheats while leaving tax evasion and tax avoidance, which cost the country far more, alone.
fastnet

Beano wrote:
Lone Groover wrote:
There isn't much chance of the enforced workers actually working though is there?  Community service work is only ever carried out to the lowest possible standard so this would be that same or worse.
Lone Groover...remember the YTS young kids washing stairs and closes and saying their training them for the workplace for £24 a week.


My 1st job was a YTS and it was £19.50 a week........
James

I also meant to comment on the media in this country. As far as I'm concerned
it is largely right wing, and a large part of it is (dangerously IMO) controlled by
an Australian fascist bastard - who incidently pays no personal tax in the UK.
And here's what said fascist bastard thinks of current tory policy. Think about that
the next time you consider buying The Sun or paying for his vulgar Sky TV.

Look at the hysteria of Poland joining the EU - "those bloody Poles will come over
here and claim our benefits" cried The Sun et al. Figures showed that out of 450,000
Polish people in the UK, 500 were claiming benefits. Or the constant highlighting
of families with 10 or 12 weans on the broo as if this were a perfect example of the
"problems" of the entire benefits system - figures show that there are 900 families
in the whole UK who have 8 or more kids and are claiming benefits. Doesn't quite
seem like such an epidemic when you starting getting some numbers, does it?

Doorstop was right about the French - they disagreed with something that was
being forced through so they took to the streets. "Hanging on in quiet desperation
is the English way" as old Pink Roger once wrote and this is true. No one wants to be
the first to cause a fuss. I still think that there will be riots in the streets. There were
countless times the last time that these right-wing bastards "governed" us.

Tax the top 5% an extra 10% and you wipe out the deficit? Imagine the tories
doing that? Naw, me neither.


Still, at least those fine chaps from the Bullingdon Club can finally get to sing
loudly "Ra ra ra, we're going to smash the oiks..."





James H
cybers

Though Ruperts monopoly did come up with the official austrailian governments catchphrase...

F.I.F.O
Fit In or fcuk Off

Denied by the present bods though lol

As a wee asides had to call the cops today was sitting have a quiet cuppa in a lane up the toon and saw the old foreigners fitting a cloner to the local bank machine... Plod as usual even though told they were still on the scene took almost half an hour to appear.
James

james73 wrote:
I still think that there will be riots in the streets.

Didn't take long...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11726822


James H
Doorstop

Aye, that's it started.
Beano

james73 wrote:
james73 wrote:
I still think that there will be riots in the streets.

Didn't take long...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11726822


James H
James... the youth of today aren't stupid they seen what happened under "thatcherism" and know what's in store for them in the future.
johnmcn

Beano wrote:
John....if unemployments that good why the hell are you working ?



Because i'm proud that everything we have, we have earned the money to pay for it.
James

johnmcn wrote:
Beano wrote:
John....if unemployments that good why the hell are you working ?



Because i'm proud that everything we have, we have earned the money to pay for it.

So, why do the unemployed plebs next door to you bother you so much? Do
you really believe they are living The Life of Riley and actually own all the fancy
trinkets you claimed they have instead of, as seems much more realistic, being
up to their eyeballs in debt?

More to the point - why is your ire directed against them and not the tax avoiding
rich, the politicians and the bankers who caused this mess?



James H
johnmcn

james73 wrote:

So, why do the unemployed plebs next door to you bother you so much? Do
you really believe they are living The Life of Riley and actually own all the fancy
trinkets you claimed they have instead of, as seems much more realistic, being
up to their eyeballs in debt?

More to the point - why is your ire directed against them and not the tax avoiding
rich, the politicians and the bankers who caused this mess?



James H



You wanna read my comment again and tell me where i say they own all the fancy trinkets ? I left those out because i know they could be on tick. The booze,drugs and takeaways, well being a working man who has to pay for the roof over my head, the clothes on my kids backs and council tax, i cant afford to use those to the excesses they do, but i'm sure you dont get tick down at tesco or the local take away.

I have no problem with people who work and earn money trying to keep a hold of it,if i wasn't paye i would pay someone to show me how pay less tax to various bodies(mainly because i dont agree in how our tax is spent), i do have a big friggin problem with people who are lazy fecks that expect others to work so they dont have to though.

As for politicians, well that last lot of wankers that got kicked out should be liable for every £ wasted on their watch.
James

johnmcn wrote:
You wanna read my comment again and tell me where i say they own all the fancy trinkets ?

johnmcn wrote:
If you receive benefits inc housing/council tax then you should put in the hours to pay back what you claim. Myself and my wife work and it pisses both of us off when we see so called poverty stricken unemployed neighbours getting pissed/stoned every weekend, have enough cash for both of them to smoke, get takeaways, taxis to the shops and a full sky tv package.With all the free time they have you'd think they'd have the best kept garden in the street...wrong. We have to pay our way, so the hell should they

There. The bit in bold. That's 'fancy trinkets' to the average cnut on the broo, I'd wager...


Now, would you care to address my question to you, the one you ignored. That
is, why is your ire directed against the poor and, using your own logic (twisted
though it undoubtedly is), "the worthless" in society?




James H
johnmcn

They aren't poor, lazy aye but poor ,no.
Beano

johnmcn wrote:
They aren't poor, lazy aye but poor ,no.
 The unemployed should just exist, no telly or takeaways (btw sometimes cheaper than making a meal) stay in looking at four walls, cut the grass and defo nae smokin it.     just tae make you feel good because YOU HAVE A JOAB, get a life man.
cybers

Och read the last line .... lol Tory .... Or a banker.... Or worse a libdem lapdug banking tory
johnmcn

Beano wrote:
johnmcn wrote:
They aren't poor, lazy aye but poor ,no.
†The unemployed should just exist, no telly or takeaways (btw sometimes cheaper than making a meal) stay in looking at four walls, cut the grass and defo nae smokin it. † just tae make you feel good because YOU HAVE A JOAB, get a life man.


I wouldn't have them looking at 4 walls, if fit and able i'd have them carry out community work, how much would depend on how many benefits are received. The ones who truly want to work would jump at the chance to keep active and show future employers they are hard working, the lazy and workshy would (as usual) come up with any excuse to try and get out of it.


Ohh and i would be happy if my neighbour cut the grass, they would have to get rid of the weeds growing between the rusting bikes frames first though..


BTW i do have a life and it's not spent posting over 1k post on an internet forum, maybe you should heed your own words :P
johnmcn

cybers wrote:
Och read the last line .... lol Tory .... Or a banker.... Or worse a libdem lapdug banking tory


I do hope that wasn't about my post because you're wrong on all points..
My views fall pretty much in line with your post on the 1st page, i just dont include lazy workshy able bodied people as 'needy' and deserving of any pity.
nellienaeneck

Can anyone tell me how this universal benefit can possibly work, does this mean that someone blind with no limbs is paid the same as someone who has just left school and cannot find work, surely we should be out there protesting about this now.
Beano

johnmcn wrote:
Beano wrote:
johnmcn wrote:
They aren't poor, lazy aye but poor ,no.
†The unemployed should just exist, no telly or takeaways (btw sometimes cheaper than making a meal) stay in looking at four walls, cut the grass and defo nae smokin it. † just tae make you feel good because YOU HAVE A JOAB, get a life man.


I wouldn't have them looking at 4 walls, if fit and able i'd have them carry out community work, how much would depend on how many benefits are received. The ones who truly want to work would jump at the chance to keep active and show future employers they are hard working, the lazy and workshy would (as usual) come up with any excuse to try and get out of it.


Ohh and i would be happy if my neighbour cut the grass, they would have to get rid of the weeds growing between the rusting bikes frames first though..


BTW i do have a life and it's not spent posting over 1k post on an internet forum, maybe you should heed your own words :P
John..och yir right    thinkin of suing UG forum fur wastin ma life.....right am over that now.....going tae work but if ye could peek through yir curtains and let me know if yer unemployed neighbours come hame wi a curry or a fish supper let me know      
Stuball

If having over 1000 posts is a waste of life, I must be really fucked :o
fastnet

What if most of my posts were made at work.

Is that me not having a life or having a job ?....  
Stuball

oh wait... a large majority of mine were made at WORK
womble

OH HOW GREAT IT IS FOR THE UNEMPLOYED .......... MY ARSE

8 people for every job, workers having to do sh!t jobs because there are NONE in their chosen trade (me for example selling the ET although I've got my forklift tickets but no forklift/warehousing jobs available apart from the 13 week Xmas run) Yes ther are some lazy people out there same as there are junkies beggars thiefs etc
There are also snobbish bastards who think that everybody not in a job are just lazy or slinging a hooky
What about those with little or no education, mental illness, phyisical disability, true long term illness or are they just the sh!t that should be scraped of your jackboots?
Your views remind me of a couple of characters I have been taught about lets see who are they mmmmmmmmmmmmmm oh aye ADOLF HITLER & JOE STALIN. I HATE THEM SEND THE TO THE "WORK CAMPS & SALT MINES"

as for peeps posting 1,000's of posts so what thats what your spare time can be used for.
Anybyes thought this was a site for the enjoyment of glesga nd other bits of the world not a platform to get at the unemplyed or any other group you dont like?
womble

PHEW not quite an UG junkie yet only into the 200's
cybers

Well most of mine were made in the hoose i am the workshy bastard who has rusty bikes in his garden canny be arsed cutting ma grass cos thats the coocils job and keeps people like Doogs in work...

Oh and i do believe i am the biggest gobshyte on here with almost 4400 posts ....

Who happens to work all day some of the night but hyper active so as such i like the internet.

I also share a good social life at weekends with like minded individuals You were making good progress too till you started attacking the very function of a forum ... But hey ho  
womble

cybers wrote:
Well most of mine were made in the hoose i am the workshy bastard who has rusty bikes in his garden canny be arsed cutting ma grass cos thats the coocils job and keeps people like Doogs in work...

Oh and i do believe i am the biggest gobshyte on here with almost 4400 posts ....

Who happens to work all day some of the night but hyper active so as such i like the internet.

I also share a good social life at weekends with like minded individuals You were making good progress too till you started attacking the very function of a forum ... But hey ho †


You forgot your 60" hd 3d plasmatronic tv and your curries pizzas champers etc etc all paid for by him      
cybers

NAh still awaiting the decision on ma crisis loan
fastnet

cybers wrote:
Well most of mine were made in the hoose i am the workshy bastard who has rusty bikes in his garden canny be arsed cutting ma grass cos thats the coocils job and keeps people like Doogs in work...

Oh and i do believe i am the biggest gobshyte on here with almost 4400 posts ....

Who happens to work all day some of the night but hyper active so as such i like the internet.

I also share a good social life at weekends with like minded individuals You were making good progress too till you started attacking the very function of a forum ... But hey ho  


And I've heard yer a mad shagger........      
johnmcn

Quite funny, let's all jump on a quote which was plainly tongue in cheek(hence the :P), but hey if you're all soo worked up that the ones who have sat around doing feck all for years may actually have to work for what they receive (kinda like most of us have had to do) then by all means, if and when their money is cut, feel free to dig out you wallet and fund their lifestyle yourself.

Amazing how in this thread people see 1+1 and come up 5..First booze,drugs and takeaways become 'fancy trinkets', then i'm to get a life and finally being compared to two mass murderers...well thanks for that Wombles, now you've opened that particular box i hope you dont mind me saying your views remind me of the people i was told to avoid when i was a child..

Btw you had my sympathy about trying to get a decent job till then.
womble

johnmcn wrote:
Quite funny, let's all jump on a quote which was plainly tongue in cheek(hence the :P), but hey if you're all soo worked up that the ones who have sat around doing feck all for years may actually have to work for what they receive (kinda like most of us have had to do) then by all means, if and when their money is cut, feel free to dig out you wallet and fund their lifestyle yourself.

Amazing how in this thread people see 1+1 and come up 5..First booze,drugs and takeaways become 'fancy trinkets', then i'm to get a life and finally being compared to two mass murderers...well thanks for that Wombles, now you've opened that particular box i hope you dont mind me saying your views remind me of the people i was told to avoid when i was a child..

Btw you had my sympathy about trying to get a decent job till then.


1, My user name is Womble singular.
2, I have no need or want of your sympathy.
3, What sort of person would that be then? Personally I see myself as a man who cares for his fellow man, knows that there are people less fortunate than himself and who also knows that some of the unemployed people in this land are taking care of family members rather than puting their sons, daughters, parents or grand parents/siblings into care homes or hospices.

so I will repeat myself and state that not all the unemployed are scroungers as you seem to imply.

So before you lecture me THINK ABOUT THOSE LESS FORTUNATE THAN YOU!!!
Stuball

but surely it was wombleS of wimbledon?
womble

Stuball wrote:
but surely it was wombleS of wimbledon?


Thats when all the family get together for a wee sing song stu  
enyhoo if the unemployed are out there cleaning up the streets nd cutting the grass etc would that not put the clenny and the enviorMENTAL peeps out of jobs??? Thus causing more unemployed.
cybers

Ah so he is a Londoner ... BURN THE WITCH !!!  

Womble's made a very good point ....

John ... Also made a very good point ....

The government DO want to band Carers of the elderly, Infirm, terminal alongside the workshy.
Stuball

womble wrote:
enyhoo if the unemployed are out there cleaning up the streets nd cutting the grass etc would that not put the clenny and the enviorMENTAL peeps out of jobs??? Thus causing more unemployed.


Hopefully they could be in addition to the cleanny... which is a service thats suffered cut backs and, lets be honest, could do with more resources and more work done. Not that I'm saying they don't do their job...
Beano

Stuball wrote:
womble wrote:
enyhoo if the unemployed are out there cleaning up the streets nd cutting the grass etc would that not put the clenny and the enviorMENTAL peeps out of jobs??? Thus causing more unemployed.


Hopefully they could be in addition to the cleanny... which is a service thats suffered cut backs and, lets be honest, could do with more resources and more work done. Not that I'm saying they don't do their job...
Stuball..if the streets need cleaning, grass cut ect, give them a proper job and wage this gives people self -respect  
johnmcn

womble wrote:


1, My user name is Womble singular.
2, I have no need or want of your sympathy.
3, What sort of person would that be then? Personally I see myself as a man who cares for his fellow man, knows that there are people less fortunate than himself and who also knows that some of the unemployed people in this land are taking care of family members rather than puting their sons, daughters, parents or grand parents/siblings into care homes or hospices.

so I will repeat myself and state that not all the unemployed are scroungers as you seem to imply.

So before you lecture me THINK ABOUT THOSE LESS FORTUNATE THAN YOU!!!


1. Meh
2  Meh
3 Invoking Godwins law, so again meh..


I have implied sweet fcuk all except that my neighbours are lazy and they and others like them should work for their benefits, if from that you somehow assume i lump them in with people who have lost jobs and are really wanting to work then you must be smoking the same sh!t as my neighbours.


Lecture you? Nah, i'll just finish with MEH!!!!
womble

johnmcn wrote:
womble wrote:


3, What sort of person would that be then? Personally I see myself as a man who cares for his fellow man, knows that there are people less fortunate than himself and who also knows that some of the unemployed people in this land are taking care of family members rather than puting their sons, daughters, parents or grand parents/siblings into care homes or hospices.

so I will repeat myself and state that not all the unemployed are scroungers as you seem to imply.

So before you lecture me THINK ABOUT THOSE LESS FORTUNATE THAN YOU!!!


3 Invoking Godwins law, so again meh..


I have implied sweet fcuk all except that my neighbours are lazy and they and others like them should work for their benefits, if from that you somehow assume i lump them in with people who have lost jobs and are really wanting to work then you must be smoking the same sh!t as my neighbours.


Lecture you? Nah, i'll just finish with MEH!!!!


so asking you to state what sort of person I am is envoking Godwins law about the overuse of Naziism and all other associated references to A. Hitler etc? It still doesn't answer my question as to what sort of person you think I am (Which you would probably get wrong anyway    )
Maybe I am having a wee toke, or sitting with a can of lager, or puffing away on a cancer stick or just sitting at my computer having a wee bit of fun.
So if you dont want to or cant give your thoughts on what sort of person I am, I will sign off wishing you a peacefull night and hope that God keeps you and yours' safe through your life.
James

johnmcn wrote:
I have implied sweet fcuk all except that my neighbours are lazy and they and others like them should work for their benefits, if from that you somehow assume i lump them in with people who have lost jobs and are really wanting to work then you must be smoking the same sh!t as my neighbours.


Lecture you? Nah, i'll just finish with MEH!!!!


You also implied that you and your missus "work hard" and you suggested that, despite
your best efforts, you dont (on the face of it) appear to be much better off than your
"lazy workshy" neighbours as you classify them. Would I be correct in that assumption?


If so, two issues (that I'd like you to address) occur to me:

1) as Beano asked way back on page 4 of this thread (and I quote him directly)
"if unemployment's that good why the hell are you working?"

2) are you happy to have policy dictated to you by a "government" that no
cnut actually voted for and one that is made up of 18 millionaires out of the
24 of the bastards that occupy the current cabinet?


Please answer some of the questions being asked of you in this thread, lest
you be written off as a reactionary right-wing brainless troll. Either is fine with
me. I'm good for at least another 3000+ posts....



James H
Beano

 meh ,meh ,meh is this guy turnin intae "Shaun The Sheep"  
"ah feck" posted again    
cybers

Stuball wrote:
james73 wrote:
I'm good for at least another 3000+ posts....


That all?


With the current rate of vat to increase to 20% plus numerous hidden stealth Tory taxes James could still be posting by the time be is 70 and still be expected to make up his shortfall...


Do pass the chopped pork peece and get that shitty cucumber aff ma plate !!!
johnmcn

james73 wrote:





You also implied that you and your missus "work hard" and you suggested that, despite
your best efforts, you dont (on the face of it) appear to be much better off than your
"lazy workshy" neighbours as you classify them. Would I be correct in that assumption?



LOL, love the "work hard",i can assure i 'work harder' than someone who sleeps in late and sits on their arse watching TV (or on their xboxes) all day.
Some months we get to put a little bit of money away, others we need to dip into those savings to keep out of overdraft.We dont get the luxory of a free roof over our head with no maintenance bills, free school meals or grants for school clothes.We dont smoke or drink much.


Quote:

If so, two issues (that I'd like you to address) occur to me:

1) as Beano asked way back on page 4 of this thread (and I quote him directly)
"if unemployment's that good why the hell are you working?"



And i answered it

Quote:

2) are you happy to have policy dictated to you by a "government" that no
cnut actually voted for and one that is made up of 18 millionaires out of the
24 of the bastards that occupy the current cabinet?


About as happy as i was with the last bunch of wankers, how many of them came out of uni straight into party 'jobs'?

Technically no one votes for a goverment, they vote for a representative to sit in Parliament.Combined, Tories and Lib Dems have more than twice the % of the vote and over 100 seats more than Labour. If they dont have the right to form a Government then you may as well scrap what little democracy we have left.


Quote:

Please answer some of the questions being asked of you in this thread, lest
you be written off as a reactionary right-wing brainless troll. Either is fine with
me. I'm good for at least another 3000+ posts....

James H


So if no one explains to me why it's right or fair when most have to work to keep the roofs over their head and clothes on their backs, fit able bodied people who haven't worked in years(or in some cases never worked) get to continue their 'free' lifestyles when we face higher taxes and further belt tightening, does that make them brainless left wing idiots?

I suppose though right wing brainless troll is a step up from mass murdering fascist.Gotta laugh though, i've been called Red John on other forums

BTW i posted a comment in regards to the OP,if i knew i would be castigated over that post i wouldn't have friggin bothered, so troll, no.
If i'm considered one for agreeing with a Tory policy on a Glasgow forum then meh, i agree with shutting the borders and kicking all the illegals out, do not pass go and certainly no friggin appeals does not mean i like the BNP or will vote for them.


Edit:


Ohh by some of you guys reckoning, by now going out to rake the leaves in my garden, i should do half his while i'm at it?
Beano

You said,
"So if no one explains to me why it's right or fair when most have to work to keep the roofs over their head and clothes on their backs"
I take it from this your in favour some kind of "subculture" where unemployment is a crime.(old tory card being played here)
you said
" i 'work harder' than someone who sleeps in late and sits on their arse watching TV " John, once again you tar everyone with your neighbours brush many many more trying to find work.
you said
"free school meals or grants for school clothes"
some kids in school get singled out and bullied because of free meals also grants for clothes "well how demeaning is that" you don't have the monopoly on pride.
"Something tae think about"
You and your good lady have worked hard for everything.
HOW safe will it be when thousands of people will be denied benifits.
anyway welcome tae UG forum mate.  
johnmcn

Beano wrote:
blah blah blah and blah


I wont do what you do and copy/paste some of my comments without the quotes i was responding too, old  and try and put words in my mouth internet game..
I wont continue saying the same thing, simply because i type one thing and you seem to jump to conclusions all by yourself.

You might want to check join dates before you 'welcome' people who predate you a couple of years..
James

johnmcn wrote:
You might want to check join dates before you 'welcome' people who predate you a couple of years..

You might want to stop a) talking down to established forum members, and
b) trolling, lest you have the moderators take action against you...



James H
johnmcn

I joined this forum 3 years ago when i heard about it through hiddenglasgow, like there i dont post a lot except in the odd thread. As i previously said i didn't post my views on this thread so it could be picked apart and made to look like something i never said .
Questions have been almost demanded from me and my answers twisted to suit some sort of vendetta for whatever reason.If there is trolling in this very thread i can assure it is not from me, copy and pasting half sentences,misquoting and comparing people to two of the worst mass murderers in the 20th century seems to me OK for the 'established' but question a 'welcome', well feck me that seems to be up there with the worst..
If this was the welcome i received 3 years ago i probably wouldn't have been back..But whatever, your rules and i seem to have broken them.
Doorstop

Bye.

On more noteworthy news ...

So .. today I am further incensed to the point of incandescence.

The largest cuts in Legal Aid in almost 100 years are being laid out in a line to be marched through, stormtrooper fashion, the sham of the 'consultation' process.

No more legal aid in divorce cases (other than those involving violence) will recieve funding, same goes for cases of professional negligence, cases of unwarranted debt recovery will now also not recieve help and .. and here's the best yet cynicism fans .. absolutely no legal aid for those claiming an unfair cut in their benefits.

And anyone notice who these legal aid decimations will help the most?

That's right .. them that have that can't stand to lose any of it them that don't - no matter how legitimate the claim.

fcuk sake, do they think we're blind? Or stupid? Or are they just hoping their divide and conquer tactics will imbibe enough vitriol in the common man for his fellow common man that we all stand by and do nothing?

Bastards! They really have got my blood boiling .. the hairs on the back of my neck are standing up as I type this - I've not been this politically fired up for a long, long time.
Beano

Hey Buster Bloodvessel , "steady the buff" or ye wull end up wi a hardon    
Doorstop

fastnet

Beano wrote:
Hey Buster Bloodvessel , "steady the buff" or ye wull end up wi a hardon    


Now that is a picture I didn't want in my head at this time of night....
AlanM

fastnet wrote:
Beano wrote:
Hey Buster Bloodvessel , "steady the buff" or ye wull end up wi a hardon †


Now that is a picture I didn't want in my head at this time of night....


Don't want that picture in my head at any time, day or night
Doog Doog

Stuball wrote:
womble wrote:
enyhoo if the unemployed are out there cleaning up the streets nd cutting the grass etc would that not put the clenny and the enviorMENTAL peeps out of jobs??? Thus causing more unemployed.


Hopefully they could be in addition to the cleanny... which is a service thats suffered cut backs and, lets be honest, could do with more resources and more work done. Not that I'm saying they don't do their job...


That has been happening in our place for years now.
Supplement the existing workforce with seasonal workers,though where there once was a chance of a full-time job if you done a couple of seasons,that has well and truly evaporated.
Given that there will be budget cuts,I fear that the intake of seasonal workers will be drastically reduced in March and with another batch of VR/VER's at the same time,next year is going to be difficult.
Doorstop

AlanM wrote:
fastnet wrote:
Beano wrote:
Hey Buster Bloodvessel , "steady the buff" or ye wull end up wi a hardon †


Now that is a picture I didn't want in my head at this time of night....


Don't want that picture in my head at any time, day or night



You love it, you slags.
cybers

Rebranding of Christmas is getting right on my tits...

Its not WINTER FESTIVAL it's CHRISTMAS its a christian celebration PC gone mad and they can all fcuk off with it in my opinion.

If it offends good it's about time it offended Christians...

What do you think would happen if wee tried to rebrand Ramadan ...

ARRRRGH  

I was standing in House of frasers this morning on the phone to my wife discussing CHRISTMAS SHOPPING when this arsehole tapped me on the shoulder and said

"I think you will find it's Winter Festival"
I think he found out what was about to happen next was best he kept quiet...

AAAAARGH

anyone else infuriated by this idiocy ?
nellienaeneck

Aye I'm bloody sick tae the back teeth of it.People who want to live in this country should be made to accept this is a christian country and you live by our rules if you don't like that †then piss off back hame we don't need you. The thing that's wrong here is we are awe big with our mouths but we don't get aff oor erses tae do anything aboot it
womble

nellienaeneck wrote:
Aye I'm bloody sick tae the back teeth of it.People who want to live in this country should be made to accept this is a christian country and you live by our rules if you don't like that †then piss off back hame we don't need you. The thing that's wrong here is we are awe big with our mouths but we don't get aff oor erses tae do anything aboot it



I'm also sick of our traditions getting wiped out to suit every one else, BUT if you dare say anything you get branded a xenophobe or a racist (which I'm not btw).
To me this is a Christian country with Christian beliefs.
If you want me to respect you and your culture please respect mine and let me celebrate it in my way.
cybers

womble wrote:
nellienaeneck wrote:
Aye I'm bloody sick tae the back teeth of it.People who want to live in this country should be made to accept this is a christian country and you live by our rules if you don't like that †then piss off back hame we don't need you. The thing that's wrong here is we are awe big with our mouths but we don't get aff oor erses tae do anything aboot it



I'm also sick of our traditions getting wiped out to suit every one else, BUT if you dare say anything you get branded a xenophobe or a racist (which I'm not btw).
To me this is a Christian country with Christian beliefs.
If you want me to respect you and your culture please respect mine and let me celebrate it in my way.


Well said wombles noo book yirself in for drug testin cos yir making sense  

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