Tank on Trongate

glasgowken · Tank on Trongate

Just wondering about this photo at the Glasgow Story site.

http://www.theglasgowstory.com/im...D5%26collection%3D0%26search%3D99

I know as a result of the strike that troops came to the city and even Vickers machine guns were set up arong George Square, but a tank ?

I think this may be a mislabeled photo and it actually represent's "Julian" a tank which was sent by rail to Glasgow in January 1918 in the hope of promoting the war effort.
Julian was unloaded at the High Street goods depot and then made it's way to Glasgow Green, to show off it's barricade smashing skills againist some demontration defences.
The next day it set off to George Square, accompanied by a pipe band and marching troops either side. The entire route was lined with thousands of sightseers, many of which clambered up to the top decks of trams for a better look.

So does anyone know for sure if this IS a photo of the strike, or rather the afore mentioned Government PR job.

Hugo Drax

There were tanks in the square.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1919_Battle_of_George_Square

glasgowken

Cheers Hugo, interesting story, i've only seen snippets in the past.

I still have doubts over the photo. There were photos of Julian in the papers at the time, it would be interesting to compare them.

Hugo Drax

I will tell you a really interesting story about this when I see you next Kenny. it is a bit twilight zone-ish.

Alex Glass

Does it involve a Time Machine Hugo?

glasgowken

Hugo Drax

It is a bit strange and spooky. Nice story though.

Hugo Drax

Here goes....

Sorry but I am going into boring anecdote mode:

Many years ago I worked in Scottish Local Government. I was in the library one night looking to take out something by James Kelman and couldn't make my mind up on which book to select. I eventually just reached out and grabbed one and when I got home I was a bit dismayed to see that I had accidentally lifted a book by someone else called James Keenan instead.

I cheered up when I saw that it was a historical fantasy about the events surrounding the sending in of tanks to George Square in 1919 during protests for improved working conditions. I read the book and had it in work with me one day when Jimmy the commissionaire saw it and told me that he was in fact the author.

It was the most amazing chance event.

glasgowken

Spooky.

Alex Glass

A lot of the best things happen by chance

falseface

Hugo Drax

Aarhghh but I am a control freak. I hate chance.

Alex Glass

I love living between both worlds. Control and Chance its a double edged sword.

escotregen

I've just picked up on this one in my roaming around while the board is all new to me.

One of the many 'accolades' that Glasgow holds is that it was the it was the one and only time that the British establishment sent tanks against workers on strike. The old reactionary and sometime wartime hero Winston Churchill was the mover behind 'sending in the tanks'. He was indeed reactionary and had an almost pathological hatred of organised labour. He shared with the intelligence services and the Royal Family (Not the real one on the TV, the one in Buckingham Palace) a terror that working class revolution was about to be imported from Communist USSR.

I'm not 100% certain it was the same event but there was a point when the Lord Provost 'read out the Riot Act' to the assembled workers in George Square. One of the many arrested was Mannie Shinwell who was one of the original 'Red Clydeside' MPs. He was banged up in Duke Street prison (as those of you who know me, that topic is just about my very most favourite -I mean Duke Street prison, not Mannie Shinwell).

In another spooky connection between this affair of the intelligence services and Glasgow - the last Governor of Duke Street prison was, I believe, the ex head of MI6!

escotregen

I've managed to get some documentary confirnmation on my recollections about tanks in George Square:

In the immediate aftermath of 31 Jan 1919 'Bloody Friday', as it became known, Government concerns about industrial militancy and revolutionary political activity in Glasgow reached new heights Fears within government of a workers' revolution in Glasgow led to the deployment of troops and tanks in the city.

An estimated 10000 English troops in total were sent to Glasgow in the immediate aftermath of the Battle of George Square. This was in spite of a full battalion of Scottish soldiers being stationed at Maryhill barracks in Glasgow at the time. No Scottish troops were deployed, with the government fearing that fellow Scots, soldiers or otherwise, would go over to the workers side if a revolutionary situation developed in Glasgow.

Fjord

Just imagine it had kicked off back then and wonder what Scotland would be like today.
Would we have been crushed into the ground or would we be a superpower dominating the sassenach's ?!!

Hugo Drax

I wonder if there were any nascent UG photographers about getting their heads bashed in due to photographing a national security incident?

cybers

dickyhart

Love that story,

HollowHorn

Kenny, I'd always taken the reported photo of the 'Tank in the Trongate 1919' as fact. Previous to your post I'd never heard of 'Julian' so I went and had a wee look.

This 'Julian' on Lanark Moor in Aug 1918, note the driver's viewing box at the front & the No. 113 on the side:

Here is another shot taken in Denny in October 1918, note the twin viewing boxes at the front and the No. 113 again:

Finally, in Jedburgh, also Oct 1918.

Looking at the Tank in the Trongate, The viewing boxes are the same & the N0. 113 appears to be painted on the front & also on the side, though it could equally be 'U3' Hard to say. Perhaps someone could have a look at the pic in negative?

Looking at this photo of Tanks stationed in the 'Cattle Market' at the time of the strike in 1919, they do appear to of a different type to the 'Julian'
Mostly conjecture I know, but interesting none the less.

escotregen

Hmm... that officer in the centre shows a rather 'jaunty' pose doesn't he? I wonder if he is the Julian that the proverbial tank was named after

falseface

Those cobbles are still there

Centurion

The tanks are Medium Cs They are stationed inside a building in case they need to be deployed (hence the glass roof) and not in the square (a cobble is a cobble is a cobble). The picture of a Mk IV female tank with crowds and some soldiers id of Julian arriving as part of the War Bond Tank Bank fund raising campaign during the First World War and nothing to do with any strikes. This photo often appears as a depiction of the 'brutal suppression of the working man' etc! In fact heavy tanks were sent to Glasgow in 1919 but not deployed but these were Mk V Males (the Mk IV was no longer in service).

HollowHorn

Thanks Centurion, I think we have already established that the tank in the Trongate is 'Julian'. The Medium C's are stationed inside the Cattle Market on Belgrove St. Dennistoun.

Now to the interesting bit. You say that the tanks sent to Glasgow in 1919 were 'Mk V Males' and that the ones in the Cattle Market were 'Medium C's' My understanding then is that the the tanks in the Market were not the ones that arrived to break the strike. Is the 'Market' photo from the WW1 period & perhaps awaiting shipment to the continent?
Or have I misunderstood you?

Pee ess: (a cobble is a cobble is a cobble)

I have removed the butter from your roll for that sacreligious statement.

Centurion

The Medium C did not enter service until after the War and did not see any service overseas (unless you count Ireland). There were two lots of tanks sent to Glasgow on two occassions. As I understand it the threat was more than enough and they didn't do much more than sit around in case the revolution broke out. I attach photo of the Mk Vs that went to Glasgow

Centurion

Further information
After a major riot that followed a short general strike in Glasgow a detachment of the 5th Tank Batt. was despatched by rail to Glasgow "in support of the civil power" in Feb 1919. At that time the 5th were equiped with Mk Vs. The tanks were based at Maryhill Barracks until some time in 1921 (the photo posted earlier shows three of them still at Maryhill at that date). Apparently the tanks made a show of strength in the Gallowgate (and not the Trongate) in 1919 in conjunction with a major exercise in which thousands of troops fanned out from Maryhill and occupied the streets setting up heavy machine gun posts at strategic road junctions. The streets remained under military occupation for about a week. The riot act had been read and any attempt at crowd forming was largely supressed. The deployment was not so much a matter of strike breaking as a fear of a Bolshevick style rising.
The Medium Cs were despatched to Glasgow because of the 1922 miners strike but never deployed on the streets.

HollowHorn

Centurion

bercause of various civil unrest in various parts of Britain (not to mention the Irish troubles) some demobbed soldiers were asked to re enlist on a one year rolling contract on, for the time, quite adventageous terms.

glasgowken

Fascinating stuff

Thanks all.

cybers

Seconded...
This thread has burst into life again with even more interesting snippets of the time.

glasgowken

Aye, sterling research by HH & Centurion